setting limiters in iNuke DSP

  1. #1 by Keith Broughton on 04-03-2014
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    setting limiters in iNuke DSP

    On most DSP devices, the limiters have ATTACK and RELEASE settings that vary how fast the limiter activates and for how long it will continue to be active.
    Different drivers require different settings of attack and release.
    On the iNuke DSP software, the limiter is referred to as a ZERO ATTACK and there is a HOLD and RELEASE control.
    It's not clear to me what the hold and release functions do and there is no attack control.
    This may just be a matter of wording but I have never seen limiters with a HOLD setting.
    Any ideas would be appreciated.
  2. #2 by Sean Fairchild on 04-04-2014
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    Dear Keith,

    The "Zero Attack" limiting feature works essentially as it sounds; by setting the attack time automatically to what is essentially the fastest attack setting possible, so that no voltage spikes above a certain threshold get through at all. I'm not sure if this parameter can be edited, but I'd be happy to help you look into it. First step is to check out any documentation on the product's webpage, under the download tab: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/NU1000DSP.aspx. I'm not sure which iNuke you have, but check out the relative page for the correct model. If the info isn't available in the manual or quick start guide, let me know and I can get with CARE to find the info you're looking for. Alternatively, if you'd like to contact them directly, you may do so by emailing care@music-group.com.
    Thank you!

    Best regards,
    Sean Fairchild
    Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER
  3. #3 by Keith Broughton on 04-05-2014
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    Thanks for taking the time to respond.
    Here is the response from Care...
    "The HOLD feature indicates how long the limiter will stay in effect once the threshold has been exceeded. The RELEASE function indicates how long the limiter will stay in effect once the signal has dropped below the threshold level."
    I figured that out by myself! The answer does nothing to directly address my question and looks like a cut and paste response.

    So it looks like the ATTACK is fixed, the RELEASE is as expected but why the HOLD?
    I have set up quite a number of different DSP limiters and HOLD is not something I have seen before.
    Gates, yes but not limiters.
  4. #4 by Keith Broughton on 04-05-2014
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    Found on the Audacity site...
    Hold (ms): Holds the gain at the reduced level after a peak is detected so as to prevent the gain from "riding the waveform" which would cause harmonic distortion.
    Shorter Hold times allow the peaks to be tracked more accurately and the limiter will respond faster to the dynamics.
    If there are high levels of very low bass it will be necessary to increase the Hold time to avoid distortion. The default 10 ms hold time is sufficient for frequencies down to 100 Hz without distortion. To cleanly limit high amplitude, very low frequency bass (down to 50 Hz) the Hold should be increased to 20 ms. Setting the hold to 50 ms is sufficient right down to 20 Hz but the delay before the gain level "recovers" is likely to be too slow for most material.
  5. #5 by Paul Vannatto on 04-05-2014
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    Hey Keith

    I think they have setup the limiter in the DSP to function similar to a compressor. A compressor can be used as a limiter (in a pinch) by adjusting the ratio very high.

    My understanding is that the attack is pre-determined, not fixed. It would be similar to the interactive mode of their compressors where you adjust the threshold and the compressors uses algorithms to adjust the rest according to the incoming signal. Of course I could be out in left field, but that is my understanding.

    Paul
  6. #6 by Keith Broughton on 04-07-2014
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    pre-determined, not fixed
    Not quite sure how to interpret that Paul.... but thanks for you response.
    To clarify, I am running the amp in bi-amp mode to drive a 2 way speaker.
    It is normal to adjust the speed of limiter onset to be faster for high frequency drivers and slower for mid and even slower for bass.
    I don't really see that Behringer has figured out some "automatic" way for the DSP to figure that out.
    It works well for the high pass side of things but is a bit too fast for the bass.
    A bit of frustration for me is not being able to talk to an engineer for Beringer instead of a customer service person.
    The depth of technical knowledge and practical experience is just not the same.
  7. #7 by Sean Fairchild on 04-07-2014
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    Posts: 251
    Dear Keith,

    I'm going to forward a link to this thread to someone on our engineering team. He's in Germany, and I can't guarantee that he will have a response for you, but it never hurts to try I'll either post back here if there is a response or I imagine he may as well.
    Thank you!

    Best regards,
    Sean Fairchild
    Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER
  8. #8 by Keith Broughton on 04-08-2014
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    I'm going to forward a link to this thread to someone on our engineering team.
    Now THAT's what I am looking for!
    Thanks Sean
  9. #9 by Sean Fairchild on 04-10-2014
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    Posts: 251
    Dear Keith,

    I confirmed that the team I sent your question to received it, but I haven't heard anything back yet. If I do, I will post it here. Thank you again for your patience and for supporting BEHRINGER!


    Best regards,
    Sean Fairchild
    Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER
  10. #10 by Anton Harris on 4 Weeks Ago
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    Posts: 49
    - Sean Fairchild wrote View Post
    Dear Keith,

    I confirmed that the team I sent your question to received it, but I haven't heard anything back yet. If I do, I will post it here. Thank you again for your patience and for supporting BEHRINGER!


    Best regards,
    Sean Fairchild
    Specialist, Channel Marketing Prosumer Division
    MUSIC Group
    BEHRINGER
    Has anything come of this yet ?