How much DSP does M32 have if I apply inserts on multiple channels.

  1. #1 by Anthony on 02-01-2018
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    How much DSP does M32 have if I apply inserts on multiple channels.

    I am going to be routing a matrix mix into a Wirecast livestream. I am also simultaneously routing a 32 channel pre-EQ and pre-fader mix into Reaper for later mixdown practice through virtual soundcheck.

    I am wondering how many inserts I can put on my Matrix channels before hitting a DSP ceiling, due to pretty much doubling the amount of inserts being using between the FOH mix and the Matrix mix. For our livestream in Wirecast, I would much rather insert effects on channels in M32, as opposed to mixing in Reaper. I don't want to overload the CPU of our desktop, as we are running Wirecast and Reaper simultaneously.

    So will I be okay mixing the livestream in the Matrix versus, or should I mix the livestream in Reaper using plugins (risking a computer crash due to CPu usage)?
  2. #2 by Robert Lofgren on 02-01-2018
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    You can not hit the dsp ‘roof’. The x/m32 is built so that any fx and/or processing can be used without choking the dsp.

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  3. #3 by Kevin Maxwell on 02-01-2018
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    - Anthony wrote View Post
    I am going to be routing a matrix mix into a Wirecast livestream. I am also simultaneously routing a 32 channel pre-EQ and pre-fader mix into Reaper for later mixdown practice through virtual soundcheck.

    I am wondering how many inserts I can put on my Matrix channels before hitting a DSP ceiling, due to pretty much doubling the amount of inserts being using between the FOH mix and the Matrix mix. For our livestream in Wirecast, I would much rather insert effects on channels in M32, as opposed to mixing in Reaper. I don't want to overload the CPU of our desktop, as we are running Wirecast and Reaper simultaneously.

    So will I be okay mixing the livestream in the Matrix versus, or should I mix the livestream in Reaper using plugins (risking a computer crash due to CPu usage)?
    The M32 has 8 effects units built in, some of them are Stereo effects or EQs and some are Dual Mono. Each of those can only be used once. So it depends on what you are thinking of as to what kind of processing and how you would use it. If you want the same reverb for a bunch of vocal channels you send any of them to the effects unit using a Mix Bus and the output of the effect has their own faders. You then blend the effects return with the original signal by how much effect you bring up on the FX return faders.

    The question of how much DSP does it have is irrelevant. It has enough that you can do everything that the board can do. There is no point where you run out of DSP. The only DSP limitation has to do with can the developers make the M32 do anything more as in add more features or have they hit the limit.

    Technically there is no problem with using the Matrix for your live stream. The only issue would be does the feed to the live stream need to be so different then the live mix that you really need someone in another room mixing just for that without hearing any of the live to mess them up. If you can use the live mix with just some minor things different then you should be fine. I use a matrix to feed video for a bunch of different show. I am doing one tonight.
  4. #4 by Anthony on 02-03-2018
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    Kevin and Robert,

    Thanks for the input guys. I was unsure if there was a point where the board could suffer due to the amount of effects processing and signal routing being pretty much maxed out, but you cleared that up.

    Kevin Maxwell, we only have volunteers running our sound at my church, and they are not very willing to dive deep into learning how to mix properly. I cannot run sound because I play lead guitar every week while they mix. As a result, the output from our board is constantly clipping when it hits Wirecast.

    To create a better mix, I'm going to be recording the rehearsal in my DAW. After rehearsal I have half an hour before service starts, so I'll playing back with virtual soundcheck to create a tiered set it and forget it matrix mix for the livestream. I will then send it to my DAW where I will use EQ, light compression, limiting, and tape saturation to make the livestream sound closer to a mastered mix. After that rough mastering in my DAW, I will send it to Wirecast to be encoded and livestreamed.

    If we have an excellent set, I will use the recorded tracks from my DAW to mix a live album our congregants can purchase to fund the cost of new audio equipment.

    Do you have anymore recommendations that could help me?
  5. #5 by Kevin Maxwell on 02-03-2018
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    - Anthony wrote View Post
    Thanks for the input guys. I was unsure if there was a point where the board could suffer due to the amount of effects processing and signal routing being pretty much maxed out, but you cleared that up.

    Kevin Maxwell, we only have volunteers running our sound at my church, and they are not very willing to dive deep into learning how to mix properly. I cannot run sound because I play lead guitar every week while they mix. As a result, the output from our board is constantly clipping when it hits Wirecast.

    To create a better mix, I'm going to be recording the rehearsal in my DAW. After rehearsal I have half an hour before service starts, so I'll playing back with virtual soundcheck to create a tiered set it and forget it matrix mix for the livestream. I will then send it to my DAW where I will use EQ, light compression, limiting, and tape saturation to make the livestream sound closer to a mastered mix. After that rough mastering in my DAW, I will send it to Wirecast to be encoded and livestreamed.

    If we have an excellent set, I will use the recorded tracks from my DAW to mix a live album our congregants can purchase to fund the cost of new audio equipment.

    Do you have anymore recommendations that could help me?
    My suggestion is to definitely use the Matrix out for your live stream feed. Be sure there is a limiter on the output and you may need to be sure that the matrix fader that is feeding the output is lower than you may think it needs to be. Check your gain structure from the Matrix out to you live stream input and make sure that it doesn’t clip the input of that. If you are using a Mix Bus output it is easier to clip them then it is to clip the Matrix output. The clipping happens in the Digital to Analog converter on the output. You can have clipping lights in the Mix Bus but since the internal processing internally it is actually still ok, it is at such a high bit rate that is the output like a matrix is low enough by the time it reaches the physical outputs you won’t hear any clipping.

    You could also attach your scene from you mixer here and maybe someone can take a look and see if anything is causing you any issues. Be sure to let us know where things are fed from. Follow the instructions in this link as to how to post your scene here. http://behringerwiki.music-group.com...s_to_the_forum

    Also be careful to follow the copyright laws in regards to recording and selling music.
  6. #6 by Kevin Maxwell on 02-03-2018
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    - Kevin Maxwell wrote View Post
    My suggestion is to definitely use the Matrix out for your live stream feed. Be sure there is a limiter on the output and you may need to be sure that the matrix fader that is feeding the output is lower than you may think it needs to be. Check your gain structure from the Matrix out to you live stream input and make sure that it doesn’t clip the input of that. If you are using a Mix Bus output it is easier to clip them then it is to clip the Matrix output. The clipping happens in the Digital to Analog converter on the output. You can have clipping lights in the Mix Bus but since the internal processing internally it is actually still ok, it is at such a high bit rate that is the output like a matrix is low enough by the time it reaches the physical outputs you won’t hear any clipping.

    You could also attach your scene from you mixer here and maybe someone can take a look and see if anything is causing you any issues. Be sure to let us know where things are fed from. Follow the instructions in this link as to how to post your scene here. http://behringerwiki.music-group.com...s_to_the_forum

    Also be careful to follow the copyright laws in regards to recording and selling music.
    To clarify things a little bit – I was referring to the Matrix outs routed to physical outputs (XLR) and you can’t bury the clip lights in the Mix Bus. But if you are minimally clipping a Mix Bus you will probably be much better if you use the matrix and bring the output of that down so it isn’t too hot a signal to the streaming system. BTW I ran a sweep tone to test this again since I experienced this a long time. I had a headphone amp hooked up to one of the XLRs and switched the routing back and forth between a Mix Bus running too hot and the Matrix being feed by that same Mix Bus without changing the level on it at all. I could distinctly hear the tone distorting when the Mix Bus was sent to the XLR but not when the Matrix was sent to the XLR.